TwinTurbo.NET: Nissan 300ZX forum - I see what you're saying and I totally agree with you.
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Subject I see what you're saying and I totally agree with you.
     
Posted by 952+2TT on February 18, 2009 at 11:50 PM
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In Reply To we can go on and on about this, but at the end it's still posted by Cap927(Boston) on February 18, 2009 at 09:02 AM
     
Message I'm not trying to say that the Viper is a "good" car because it is anything but that. But this isn't what the Viper is about. As zboost said, the interior is horrible. Other than the extensive use of cheap plastics, there are a host of other flaws. If you look at the rubber molding on the trunk, you'll see that a "universal" strip of rubber molding was laid on the trunk's edge, and then CUT on the corners to make it round. The carpet: Not only does it feel like crap, it is not molded for the car. If you look at the passenger footwell you'll see that the carpet was just laid there, and the extra material was cut off so that it doesn't look creased. They didn't even bother to stitch it or anything; they just left the sliced carpet overlapping in both corners of the footwell.

Then there's the nice looking side exhausts, which you really have to watch out for while getting in and out of the car when it's warm because they WILL burn you (especially if you're wearing shorts). If you get stuck in traffic on a hot summer day, the engine temp rises a bit and then it starts to spit and jerk (you can see the shifter make these abrupt movements when the engine gets pissed off). Also at this point you feel like someone set the footwells on fire, but rest assured, it's only the exhaust heating the cabin compartment (it's awesome in winter though cuz you don't feel the cold). An aftermarket exhaust reduces the heat significantly, and also shaves off somewhere around 30 pounds.

The reliability is not that great either. The car is designed to last as long as its warranty period and then fall apart after that (this one has an extended warranty so everything was covered). The transmission, differential, engine, and a bunch of other parts were replaced even though this car was not tracked or abused.

However, this is all part of the Viper's character. With all its flaws, the car is SO much fun to drive. I can't think of anything on the market that compares to the Viper. It feels like a go kart... or sort of like a nose-heavy 240Z. It has its flaws and it does not attempt to hide them. As soon as you get in to the car it gives you this "If you don't like it, get out" kind of gesture. It is hard to get in and out of, and once you're in you sit very low in the small, deep cabin compartment. At over 130 mph, you feel like you're in a death trap. You have to stay alert at all times because the car constantly gives you that "you f*** with me, I'll kill you" reminder. There are "death or serious injury" warnings everywhere you look, and the visor sticker says that the best place "for children under 12 is the back seat." Excuse me?

But then the actual driving experience makes you forget all its flaws. The seats, steering, braking, and chassis are simply awesome. The seats are very supportive, yet still comfortable. I cannot explain to you how great the steering feel is. It lets you know exactly what is going on at all times, and it points the car exactly where you want it to go. The same goes for the Brembo brakes; perfect feel, no fade, and it stops on a dime. The chassis is stiff and it feels so right. The suspension could be improved significantly with an aftermarket coilover setup because the factory suspension feels weird altogether, and it's also a bit too soft. The car could also benefit from a spoiler for better stability at higher speeds because I think that Dodge did something seriously wrong with the car's design. It has the same cd as a VW Beetle which makes it far from aerodynamic, and I think it does not generate any downforce at high speeds which causes it to feel unstable. With the right suspension and a little more downforce, it would make a killer track car (which is the reason why the ACR is a great track performer).

The ZO6 does offer a lot more for the price on pen and paper, but there are so many reasons I'd pick a Viper over it. At a first glance, the Vette looks luxurious. Then you get in and everything you touch feels cheap. The seats are so unsupportive, and the leather feels like it came from a rats ass. The drive: there's no doubt that it's a fast car, but it gets boring really fast too. The steering feel is so numb and you have absolutely no communication with the chassis. Yet you can feel every little bump on the road thanks to the super stiff suspension. The tire roar is a bit louder than you'd expect too thanks to the run flat tires. The ZO6 also tends to be a bit too tail happy, which isn't as big of a problem when you can feel it coming (like in the Viper), but with the ZO6 you don't. It's kind of dangerous to have that much power without being able to predict the car's behavior. The magazines that tested both cars all seemed to agree that the ZO6 had a vague steering feel and it was more difficult to keep it going in a straight line. But once you learned how to trust the chassis it put down some decent times. The main complaints about the Viper were related to creature comforts; something which I admit the Viper severely lacks. The ZO6 would be a better daily driver than the Viper, but then I personally don't think either of them are meant to be daily driven.

The thing I hate the most about the ZO6 is all the hype surrounding it. It is every GM fanboy's dream car and it is made out to be some sort of God (which it isn't) on GM forums. Every car is made out to be a POS when compared to the mighty Vette, especially the 911 turbo (and now the GTR), which they are convinced that the Vette is far superior to in every way. If you dare disagree, your opinion will no longer be welcome or appreciated. There also seems to be an abundance of clueless retards who come up with absurd statements on GM forums too. On the other hand, Viper owners are generally really cool people. Many of them own other exotics, and a few of them also own a Vette. They know that the Viper has its flaws but love it for what it is, and they also seem to agree that the Porsche 911 turbo is the best supercar overall. There is not much hatred or bias on their forums. In other words, they're cool people.

Now I realize that after getting carried away for almost an hour this is starting to look like an essay, so I better stop now. Moral of the story: with the ZO6 you get just what you paid for; cheap performance. With the Viper you get less than what you paid for in terms of value, but all the the excitement you get more than covers the difference. It's a car that you would want to drive for the sole purpose of driving enjoyment (track, canyons, or topless weekends <--- with that term loosely defined), rather than a practical car that takes you from point A to point B reliably. This is one of these cars that you either love or hate, with not much room for anything in between. In the end, we all have different tastes and different expectations from what we choose to drive. If you'd like to watch what I think is an awesome review of the Viper, you should download that Top Gear episode from Racingflix. Jeremy Clarkson is normally biased and exaggerates things, but I think his review was spot on in that episode.

Btw, Chrysler was bought by an investment company a few months ago who now own 80 percent of the company. It seems like the Viper is still on the chopping block, along with a few other models from the Chrysler line up. This is also the reason for the complications when GM and Chrysler considered merging, because then it would have to own part of GM as well.

     
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